This is a discussion on Moneyballers - I'm throwing the gauntlet down within the Smack Talk forum at Strike 3 Forums; Originally Posted by Saber All the credit for the Ranger's success belongs solely to ...

Taylor · 06-17-2005, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Saber

All the credit for the Ranger's success belongs solely to Grady Fuson and Orel Herschiser.

This, we agree on...except Melvin built most of what we have in the majors today, Fuson built what we have in the farm club.

Steak · 06-17-2005, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Saber

All the credit for the Ranger's success belongs solely to Grady Fuson and Orel Herschiser.

Don't forget John Hart too.

Taylor · 06-17-2005, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Steak

Don't forget John Hart too.

Hart can't take credit for firing Fuson. That belongs to Buck and Orel...sorry.

Steak · 06-17-2005, 10:33 PM

Yes, but Hart hired Fuson, didn't he when Hart got the job.

Taylor · 06-17-2005, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Steak

Yes, but Hart hired Fuson, didn't he when Hart got the job.

No sir - that was Hick's call, and Beane threw a fit because Hicks lied by saying he was interviewing him for GM only. Go look at Gammon's articles, Beane asked for Blalock as compensation at first, forgot who he then said he'll take, Hicks was ultimately fined 300k but no players were lost.

Edit - Now that I think about it Fuson wasn't officially "fired", he did resign with a year left on his contract but was still paid. You could make an argument that Hart was instrumental in his leaving because once Hart decided to stay on as GM he started bullying into Fuson's area, the minor leagues and the draft. So in an unwritten way Hart wanted Fuson gone but didn't want to make it public, instead he made it to where Fuson would never stay. If this makes sense/Edit

joek · 06-18-2005, 09:00 AM

Taylor, it appears you trounced Saber. But, haven't we all.

A's Baby Girl · 06-19-2005, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by A'sDiehard

Moneyball is DEAD.

Indeed it is.

I've never like Beane's philospohy much. I always felt it was holding the team back.

Steak · 06-19-2005, 12:26 AM

Moneyball sucks period.

The reason why the A's did well was beacuse of that big trio they used to have.

realmofotalk · 06-19-2005, 02:56 AM

Even Beane's computer boy, Paul DePodesta, has let his scouting director run the draft and select high school pitchers.

I don't think JD Drew and Jeff Kent are necessarily Moneyball players, but that they were the top remaining free agents within McCourt's budget. Hee Siop Choi probably fits the prototype Moneyball player and he's no Jason Giambi circa 2000.

realmofotalk · 06-19-2005, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Steak

The reason why the A's did well was beacuse of that big trio they used to have.

Not to mention Beane also ripped off Kansas City for Jermaine Dye and Johnny Damon.

A's Baby Girl · 06-19-2005, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by realmofotalk

Not to mention Beane also ripped off Kansas City for Jermaine Dye and Johnny Damon.

Not like either of those 2 did much in Oakland anyway. Dye's years were mostly ravaged with injuries and Damon had his worst career year in the 1 year he was here.

Steak · 06-19-2005, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by Saber

I stopped worrying about Seattle the day they made Bill Bavasi GM.

You do realize Bavasi was the guy that drafted those Angels players that won the WS. Guys like Salmon, Anderson, Glaus, Washburn, and etc. He may not have had success with the FA moves like signing Mo Vaughn, who was useless since the night he fell on that rail in his first game as an Angel.

Steak · 06-19-2005, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by Taylor

A-Rod is the man, Bonds is a cheater!!!!!!!

I agree with you on Bonds.

As for Pay-Rod, the guy QUIT on your team. I don't consider anyone the man when they quit on a particular team. Kevin Garnett is what you call the man. He could have left Minnesota two years ago to a big market team and even before then, but he stayed in Minnesota and he will still stay in Minnesota even as management continues to make a mockery out of that franchise. KG should be applauded for not going to a team that is ready to win or a big-market team.

KG will probably be the Ernie Banks of the NBA, but at least, he is going through stick it out and finish his career with a bad basketball team. I think that means more than Rodriguez wanting out of Texas. That's what you call being a man.

joek · 06-19-2005, 11:14 AM

Also Arod has very little to no ability in the clutch.

A'sDiehard · 06-19-2005, 10:11 PM

Hey Taylor, Moneyball is back babeee.......

I kid, I kid. Honestly, I've never read the book and at this point I doubt I will. The only thing moneyball (if it even exists) has taught me is not to get attached to any one player because before you know it he'll be wearing another uniform.

Moneyball has resulted in ZERO rings for the A's; a few more million in 2000-2001 and we'd have some new hardware. JMHO.