GiantsFan83 (here you go)

[McKain]

According to the Mitchell Report, Segui started using roids in 94-95.

Before 94-95:
.244/.311/.350
.278/.316/.340
.233/.306/.296
.273/.351/.400
.241/.308/.387

After:
.309/.367/.461
.286/.375/.442
.307/.308/.505

and so on and so on.

Mervin Bernard received a shipment of them in 2003 in efforts to revive his career. It didn't work.

So hey, you're 1/2. Good job.

[GiantsFanatic]

Originally Posted by browntown653 YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! Where's your ****ing research that Segui and Benard would have been ANY BETTER if they hadn't used steroids? Steroids don't automatically make you a Hall of Famer, just certain players like your best buddy Barry. This argument has the logic of a 3-year-old.

Dont know what **** your talking about.

And whats your evidence that proves steriods helped Segui and Benard? How did it help Pettitte and Clemens? Your just assuming shit!

And Bonds was already great before all this alledged shit!

[McKain]

Welp, I'm going to assume it helped them by stimulating muscle growth, which is a pretty nice thing for an athlete to have and a proven effect of anabolic steorids.

[Halladay_is_God]

it helped Clemens win a 2nd Cy Young in Toronto, and helped him pitch for 8 more seasons after that

quote from the list

According to McNamee, from the time that McNamee injected Clemens with Winstrol through the end of the 1998 season, Clemens’s performance showed remarkable improvement. During this period of improved performance, Clemens told McNamee that the steroids “had a pretty good effect” on him. McNamee said that Clemens also was training harder and dieting better during this time.

[GiantsFanatic]

Clemens with the Yankees when he used steriods according to Mitchell Report his era was
99- 4.60
00- 3.70
01- 3.51
02- 4.35
03- 3.91

How ironic his numbers actually sucked in NY as compared to Boston and Toronto.

[DirtyKash]

Maybe it's because when he pitched with NYY, he was 36+ years old.

[Veovis]

Nah, Rog couldn't handle the heat in NY.

[HollywoodLeo]

Don't bother wasting your time with GF83 on this subject.

No matter how much logic and common sense you toss his way he will always proclaim Bonds to be innocent.

Meanwhile he'll still go next door and call Shawne Merriman a cheater.

[realmofotalk]

Originally Posted by HollywoodLeo Don't bother wasting your time with GF83 on this subject. No matter how much logic and common sense you toss his way he will always proclaim Bonds to be innocent. Meanwhile he'll still go next door and call Shawne Merriman a cheater.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't your stance that it's just speculation that both Bonds and Merriman knowingly used steroids until either is proven otherwise?

[HollywoodLeo]

Originally Posted by realmofotalk Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't your stance that it's just speculation that both Bonds and Merriman knowingly used steroids until either is proven otherwise?

You are correct.

Do you see me stating that Bonds is guilty in this thread?

[realmofotalk]

No, and I applaud you for not jumping to conclusions as others (and I admit including myself) have, but you certainly haven't thrown around the words "circumstancial evidence" with Merriman as you have with Bonds.

[HollywoodLeo]

Besides, whether or not Bonds knowingly took steroids is irrelevant to this particular discussion.

GF83 isn't even contesting that in this thread.

He's arguing that even if Bonds was doped on steroids that they couldn't help him hit home runs, all based off shotty logic.

Apparently, in GF83's logic, steroids can help you tackle someone harder but they don't help you hit a baseball harder.

[HollywoodLeo]

Originally Posted by realmofotalk No, and I applaud you for not jumping to conclusions as others (and I admit including myself) have, but you certainly haven't thrown around the words "circumstancial evidence" with Merriman as you have with Bonds.

I threw around the "circumstantial evidence" argument when the question was whether or not Bonds was on steroids.

I never used that argument when the debate became whether or not he knowingly took them.