Do The Red Sox Make The Playoffs?

[bwitty24]

And 62 walks...

[Kingdom_of_Zito]

I'd say either yes, the pitching settles down or no cause the pitching doesn't settle down. Cause their pitching has not been that good except for Lester and Beckett here and there.

[ljshorty89]

My only problem with CJ is that he picks and chooses when stats matter. K/BB matters....but not for Dice-K. Wins are the best showing of a dominant pitcher....except Lester. ERA means a lot...except for Beckett who has been unlucky. It doesn't work like that. Either a stat matters and you have to concede you have lost certain parts of this argument, or you say the stat doesn't matter, and you lose some your supporting data for the Sox pitchers...

[cjkalt]

1) I have yet to defend beckett... i said he sucks in every single post
2) Every stat matters, but John Maine and Perez have none of them, dice-k has a few weak stats but he makes up for it with others, same with lester (who i never called dominant... i just said he's not lightyears behind Santana)

[bwitty24]

can we just agree that wins and losses are a garbage stat? Wins and losses are one of the least important pitcher statistics. Dice Ks ERA has been pretty good this year but I guarantee it will be over 3.5 and approaching 4 by the end of the season. Pretty much all of his other stats suck.

And I agree with LJ on all accounts about you and your nonsense.

[ljshorty89]

Well, if Beckett sucks(lets compare him to Pelfrey and give the Sox an edge even though Big Pelf's numbers are better), Wakefield is average at best(lets say we compare him to pedro, and give the sox a slight edge), Lester is lesser than Santana, then it comes down to Perez and Maine versus Buchholz and Masterson. You can't deny that statistically Maine and Perez have been better than those two.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Lance324 I agree with you that it was an awful trade, and that they will probably fall short. However I disagree with you that he wouldn't have kept loafing, and even if he didn't. What kind of message does that send when a player is obviously not playing hard and is loafing and you don't discipline him. The Red Sox had to do this, for the chemistry of their team and for management to keep it's integrity. Let's face it, this was going to be his last season in Boston, cause they certainly weren't gonna pick up his option. So look at the loss of Manny as the rest of this year only. I don't feel they were gonna make it even with him, and even if they did... The Angels are the class of the AL. And if they would have traded Ramirez and had Moss or Coco play left everyday... Red Sox Nation would have went beserk about them giving up. So they had to get a respectable player to replace him in left. Their hands were tied. Good-bye Manny Ramirez, a great ballplayer, but unfortunately not a very good person!!!!

I don't know what kind of message it sends, is it important to send messages or win? He's done this almsot annually rfor the last 4-5 years and he always performs when you need him and you've won 2 Championships. I'm just happy manny is gone.

[love_that_reefer]

Red Sox weren't winning with Manny being a *****. A deal had to be done. Manny act this year is 100% different than any other year.

[Lance324]

NYJunc,
You are right Manny has been a jackass for the last 4 or 5 years, but he's never loafed and refused to play, at least not to the extent he was doing this year. I know, I know he refused to hit in Philadelphia that one year, and a couple of years ago he didn't play from like August 1 on during a pennant race. But this time it was different, he was basically threatening to only play when he felt like it. You can't let a player get away with that. And by the way, he doesn't "always perform when you need him" see above when he decided he didn't want to play after August. This year when pulled it during the Seattle and then Yankees games, he couldn't even remember which knee he told them was hurting, and was switching from one day to the next. Just look at the way they've been playing for the last 2 weeks with his "Manny being Manny" crap going on. Not that is the only issue. No matter how good a hitter he is, he's not worth anything if he refuses to play.

[love_that_reefer]

I really want to beat the shit out of people when they say "Manny being Manny". No threats being made but it has to be one of the dumbest excuses ever.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Lance324 NYJunc, You are right Manny has been a jackass for the last 4 or 5 years, but he's never loafed and refused to play, at least not to the extent he was doing this year. I know, I know he refused to hit in Philadelphia that one year, and a couple of years ago he didn't play from like August 1 on during a pennant race. But this time it was different, he was basically threatening to only play when he felt like it. You can't let a player get away with that. And by the way, he doesn't "always perform when you need him" see above when he decided he didn't want to play after August. This year when pulled it during the Seattle and then Yankees games, he couldn't even remember which knee he told them was hurting, and was switching from one day to the next. Just look at the way they've been playing for the last 2 weeks with his "Manny being Manny" crap going on. Not that is the only issue. No matter how good a hitter he is, he's not worth anything if he refuses to play.

He sure has qut including that '03 game against the Yanks where he sat out then was hanging out at the hotel bar w/ Enrique Wilson of the Yankees. he's done this multiple times, he quit at the end of '06 as well for a long stretch BUT you were out of it by then. When the games mean something he tries, he might do what he has done for a couple of weeks but he would have been fine had he stayed just like he was in years past. I'm happy as can be he's gone so it doesn't bother me I just think Boston made a bad move.

The Sox as a team, the fans and media all allowed "Manny to be manny". As an opposing fan I hated it but you got results w/ it so how can you argue?

[love_that_reefer]

You can argue when the team says they couldn;t count on Manny anymore. He forced his team to trade him unlike any other year. This was a totally different scenario and Manny had to go. Red Sox won last night with out Manny. Shocker!

[Lance324]

NyJunc,
The problem is we were no longer getting results look at the last 2 weeks. We'll manage without him, and if the Sox don't make the playoffs I certainly am not going to say at the end of the year... "I think they would have made it if they had Manny", because I don't think they would have made it with him.